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Chapter 17

Quote 1:"You ought to go to a boys' school sometime. Try it sometime," I said. "It's full of phonies, and all you do is study so that you can learn enough to be smart enough to be able to buy a goddam Cadillac some day, and you have to keep making believe you give a damn if the football team loses, and all you do is talk about girls and liquor and sex all day, and everybody sticks together in these dirty little goddam cliques. The guys that are on the basketball team stick together, the Catholics stick together, the goddam intellectuals stick together, the guys that play bridge stick together. Even the guys that belong to the goddam Book-of-the-Month Club stick together. If you try to have a little intelligent--" (ch.17) (T)
Quote 2:"We horsed around a little bit in the cab on the way over to the theater. At first she didn't want to, because she had her lipstick on and all, but I was being seductive as hell and she didn't have any alternative [...]." (ch.17)  (T)

Holden obviously didn't like school, he didn't really try in school, and he didn't have very many friends in school. Probably for this reason exactly because he thinks that they are all phonies, and not worth his time getting to know them. He obviously feels like he cannot fit into any of these social cliques because he may not have anything in common with them. Are we as readers supposed to feel bad for Holden? It is his own fault for not putting himself out there and selling his self to the people around him at Pency. Of course there is going to be cliques, it's high school, but people work through that.
Holden talks about his experience with women, and I think he thinks he is a guy with a lot of swagger and sex appeal. He had the confidence to call a hooker, and even later on in the book he calls a prostitute. He apparently isn't so smooth, he does take her on a romantic cheesy date. Then he end's up making her cry, and then he leaves without her, and even thinks about calling Jane. I don't think Holden is the type of guy to be in a committed stable relationship because he has never had one before. Although, his relationship with Phoebe is open and honest, it is different having a relationship with someone you like or love than a sister you love dearly.

Chapter 16

Quote 1:"That's what I liked about those nuns. You could tell, for one thing, that they never went anywhere swanky for lunch. It made me so damn sad when I thought about it, their never going anywhere swanky for lunch or anything. I knew it wasn't too important, but it made me sad anyway. I started walking over toward Broadway, just for the hell of it, because I hadn't." (ch.16)  ( C)

Quote 2:"It was lousy in the park. It wasn't too cold, but the sun still wasn't out, and there didn't look like there was anything in the park except dog crap and globs of spit and cigar butts from old men, and the benches all looked like they'd be wet if you sat down on them. It made you depressed, and every once in a while, for no reason, you got goose flesh while you walked. It didn't seem at all like Christmas was coming soon. It didn't seem like anything was coming. But I kept walking over to the Mall anyway, because that's where Phoebe usually goes when she's in the park. She likes to skate near the bandstand. It's funny. That's the same place I used to like to skate when I was a kid."(ch.16) (F)

In the chapter  before this Holden spent a good bit of his time talking to the nuns about there jobs as teachers, and he really has a tender heart for people like this. He gives them $10, but then later on feels bad that it wasn't enough, but he remembers he has a date with Sally and he had to live another week on little money, so he couldn't pay them anymore. The nuns were so thankful to Holden and they told him that they couldn't except the money. Then in chapter 16, Holden continued to talk about the nuns, and they must be weighing heavy on his heart because he says that they never get to go eat at swanky places like he gets to experience and eat at. He says he know is wasn't important but it was still sad to him, and I think that everyone does this when people are so kind to you on the streets. Even though there isn't a reason for Holden to feel bad because he did the right thing, he still does because he is a human with human emotions. In this chapter Holden is very lonely, sad, and depressed because the park isn't the same it used to be. Also because he can't find Phoebe and the nuns. He is looking for Phoebe to give her the record he went and bought her. She usually skates at the park on Sundays, but not this Sunday. Holden approaches a girl in the park that he thinks would know Phoebe, and then she ends up talking about the museum. She thinks Phoebe may be at the museum with her class on a field trip. Holden then starts to reminisce on his childhood. He then goes on to say that the things in the museum never change, but the people that go inside each time are different. This was such a Holden expression to me, I honestly wasn't surprised to read it because he analyzes everything. I think analyzing may be his specialty. He reads into everything really deep, and notices every detail in the museum. 

Chapter 12

Quote 1:"New York's terrible when somebody laughs on the street very late at night. You can hear it for miles. It makes you feel so lonesome and depressed. I kept wishing I could g home and shoot the bull for a while with old Phoebe" (Ch.12)  (T) 
Quote 2:"I was surrounded by jerks. I'm not kidding. At this other tiny table, right to my left, practically on top of me, there was this funny-looking guy and this funny-looking girl."(ch.12) (C)

Holden and Phoebe have a very close relationship. He goes out and buys her a record, when he finally gets to see her he kisses her, and not many siblings kiss. He talks about how no one is like Phoebe, and how she is not a phony. Phoebe will be very straight with you and she is not a slob like Ackley or like Stradlater. He tells us that Phoebe is a very smart girl, as a matter of fact he says he is the only person in the family who wasn't blessed with book smarts. He seems to have a very close bond with all of his siblings, and mainly Phoebe I think because she doesn't hold anything back, and it seems to be like the only real friend he has. He knows he can trust her with anything and he sees her so special in his eyes, and this is an ongoing theme we see throughout the book. D.B is brought up more so in this chapter, when Holden runs into a girl he used to run around with when he was younger. They struck up a conversation about D.B, and Holden told her that he was in Hollywood now as a writer. She definitely wanted Holden to tell D.B, but she was with another guy. Whether Holden will or not is the question. 

Chapter 9

Quote 1: "I didn't want to start an argument."Okay," I said. Then I thought of something, all of a sudden. "Hey, listen", I said. "You know those ducks in that lagoon right near Central Park South? That little lake? By any chance, do you happen to know where they go, the ducks, when it gets all frozen over? Do you happen to know, by any chance?" I realize it was only one chance in a million[..]." (ch.9) (p.67) (F,C,T)

Quote 2: "Well, the thing is, I don't want to stay at any hotels on the East Side where I might run into some acquaintances of mine. I'm traveling incognito," I said. I hate saying corny things like "traveling incognito." But when I'm with somebody that's corny, I always act corny too. "Do you happen to know whose band's at the Taft or the New Yorker, by any chance?" (ch.9) (p.68) (C)

Holden seems to be very obsessed with what the birds do in the winter and where they go. This is the second time in the book that the topic has been brought up. Later on when he is reminiscing on his childhood field trips to the museum, he talks about how there is a display in the museum of the birds flying south for the winter. This made me wonder why he would bring this up twice now when he obviously knows they fly south for the winter. Maybe he is trying to incorporate his brother who passed away. He always seems to think that everything has an end, he almost has a negative perspective on life. Which is easy to do when you lose a loved one, but he just seems to think everything dies. Which also right again, everything does die eventually, but Holden just doesn't see it as everything dies. I think he may see it as, him just being curious about life, but then again he knows where the birds go. I would have to say I'm a little confused by this.
The reason Holden doesn't want to stay at any hotels because his family doesn't know he is in town, and they don't know that he failed out of another school, so he doesn't want to be seen by any one he knows. Because his mom has been very fragile because of his brothers death and he doesn't want to tell her anything else to upset her. In this chapter he basically  called up a hooker and she turns him down because he is too young. What more would we want to know about him? We found out he's failed out of school, he thinks everything is phony, he called up a hooker, and he lies just to lie. If that does not say a lot about someones character I don't know what does. He tells us he is curious about sex and he tells us that he has never had it, but he has fooled around with girls. He also tells us that he made a contract with himself that he wouldn't do anything with girls that he really didn't care for, but then he tells us he also broke that in the same week.

Chapter 8

Quote 1: "Women kill me. They really do. I don't mean I'm oversexed or anything like that-- although I am quite sexy. I just like them, I mean. They're always leaving their goddam bags out in the middle of the aisle." (p.63) (ch.8) (C)


Quote 2: "Then I started reading this timetable I had in my pocket. Just to stop lying. Once I get started, I can go on for hours if I feel like it. No kidding. Hours." (p.65-66) (ch.8) (T)

I don't really know what to think about this. I kind of laughed when I first read it because Holden is all over the place in this statement. First he is talking about how he likes girls and how he thinks he has some big sex appeal or something, and then he is basically saying girls annoy him sometimes. When he says they are always leaving their goddam bags in the aisle. This is the part I really laughed hard at because of course girls are going to carry a bag or a purse in a big city, and the way Holden phrases it. Holden always jumps around in the way he talks in the first chapter we learned that he could be having a conversation and be thinking about something else all at once. We can infer that he is very talented and is able to hold a lot on his plat. When he jumps around in his sentences, it lets me know he notices the small things and we already know that he can detect phony from a mile away. He probably thinks it is phony to carry a purse because you may have something to hide in it. Holden is a curious and strange guy we definitely are continuing to see layers peel off and Holden's character is shining bright.
In this second quote from chapter 8, may be one of my favorite Holden lines. The topic comes up again about him lying. I already discussed the differences between a pathological liar and a normal/casual liar in another post. I came to the conclusion that I think Holden is a casual liar. He lies for the fun of it and to see the outcome, we see this in almost every chapter Holden is lying about something. Holden is really starting to show us his true colors. He first off flunked out of school, and now he is lying to this poor kids mom on the train. He lied about his name, he told her that her son was the most popular at Pency, and he tells her he has a small brain tumor. When is the lying going to stop? It is almost hypocritical when he says he hates phony people and he can detect a phony person, but he is telling lie after lie just because no one knows the truth, so no one can stop him. So what does that make him? I think that is makes him a fake too, it makes him look very hypocritical.

Chapter 4

Quote 1: "You remember I said before that Ackley was a slob in his personal habits? Well, so was Stradlater, but in a different way. Stradlater was more of a secret slob. He always looked all right, Stradlater, but for instance, you should've seen the razor he shaved himself with. It was always rusty as hell and full of lather and hairs and crap. He never cleaned it or anything. He always looked good when he was finished fixing himself up, but he was a secret slob anyway, if you knew him the way I did." (ch.4)  (C )
Quote 2: "Her mother belonged to the same club we did," I said. "I used to caddy once in  a while, just to make some dough. I caddy's for her mother a couple of times. She went around in about a hundred and seventy, for nine holes."
Stradlater wasn't hardly listening. He was combing his glorious locks.
"I oughta go down at least say hello to her," I said. Why dont'cha?"
"I will in a minute. He started parting his hair all over again. It took him about an hour to comb his hair. [...] (ch.4)  (C)


We learned that Ackley is a weird pimply guy that has no friends and rummages through peoples personal property. Then we learn about the big hot shot Stradlater who doesn't get along with Ackley. Stradlater is a player with the ladies, and is one of the schools jocks. Holden starts to evaluate Stradlater and he starts comparing things him and Ackley's cleanliness. Stradlater on the outside he a well put together dude, but Holden after living with him for a while is just not realizing that he may actually be just as bad as Ackley.
Stradlater shows out again, he is blatantly is ignoring Holden while Holden is trying to tell a story. Holden has been accused of doing this to his history teacher in chapter one. The really rude thing is that, Stradlater asks Holden to do him a favor and write him his english paper. Which is ironic because Holden is failing out of school, but his best subject is english. What made me laugh was that that the paper had to be written on a specific topic but Holden couldn't think of anything, so he just ended up writing about his brother's baseball glove with poems written on it.

Chapter 3

Quote 1:"I am the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life."(ch.3) (p.19) -Content
Quote 2:"I didn't have anything special to do, so I went down to the can and chewed the rag with him while he was shaving." (ch.3) -Content

Is Holden a pathological liar or just a liar? A pathological liar is someone who lies but does not believe they are lying because they lie so much. A normal liar is a person who knows they are lying and can own up to it if needed. I think Holden is just an occasional liar because he likes to make his life sound a little more interesting than it is. Everyone lies, the percent of people who tell lies "sometimes" or "often" is roughly 12%. I just think it is very interesting that he just lies cause he can. Honestly it is kind of humorous to me in a way. It is probably bad to think lying is funny but the lies he tells make me laugh. For example, simply lying about going to get his equipment in the gym when he doesn't even keep it in there, or when he says just because he will say he is going to the opera when he is really going to the gym.Not only in this chapter do we see him lie but in multiple ones. It is an on going theme in the book, that Holden likes to lie for the fun of it.
"I went down and chewed the rag", I did not really understand what that meant. I think the reference "can" is talking about the bathroom. I think that the can is referencing the bathroom because in that paragraph he mentions something about the washbowl and steamy windows. I don't think he is actually chewing on a rag either. Maybe that means he was holding back what he wanted to say to Stradlater, or that means he is just going along to talk to him while they are shaving and cleaning up in the bathroom.

Chapter 1

Quote 1:"I remember around three o'clock that afternoon I was standing way the hell up on top of Thomsen Hill, right next to this crazy cannon that was in the Revolutionary War and all. You could see the whole field from there, and you could see the two teams bashing each other all over the place. You couldn't see the grandstand too hot, but you could hear them all yelling, deep and terrific on Pency side[...]" (p.4) (ch.1)  -Content/Theme

Quote 2: "What I was really hanging around for, I was trying to feel some kind of good-by." (p.6-7) (ch.1)

-Content

In the first quote I think that Holden is giving us an idea of how the story is going to play out. He slightly hints to us that while everyone is at the game, he is sitting alone. You have to remember that this game is a huge deal, it is one of the biggest games Pency plays. Holden would rather keep to himself and watch from a distance. While everyone is having the time of there life, he would rather be isolated from everyone else instead of connecting with other students. This hint that the writer gives us is cluing us in for an on going theme that Holden would rather sit back and watch things happen instead of participating in them. 

In the second quote even though Holden has a rough and tough way about him in the way he talks and acts. He still wanted to feel closure leaving Pency. Holden talks about his crappy life in the first chapter, and maybe he has never felt a since of closer with anything. I think that is why he said bye to his history teacher because he felt like that teacher really cared about him, and it gave him closer to say goodbye. In the first chapter we are just starting to find out the characters and what role they play. We know a little about Holden's family, and that he had two brothers and one died, a sister, and that he comes from a wealthy family.